Why the U.S.–China Relationship Feels So Tense Right Now, with Rorry Daniels, Managing Director, Asia Society Policy Institute

A new normal? In this episode, Rorry Daniels, Managing Director of the Asia Society Policy Institute, and Erol Yayboke discuss U.S. - China competition and the changing global order.

Rorry shares her surprising path from underground theater in LA to China policy leadership, and unpacks the misunderstood layers of the U.S.–China relationship, from national identity and economic anxiety to why both countries may be abandoning the rules-based global order.

Erol and Rorry explore everything from:

- Track 2 diplomacy

- AI’s impact on political instability in Asia

- How Chinese netizens are subtly pushing back

- What most Western analysts still get wrong about Beijing

Whether you're in tech, policy, or just trying to make sense of where the world is heading, this episode will give you new language and new frames, to understand the world’s most important bilateral relationship.

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⏱️ Timestamps

00:00 – Intro

01:00 – From screenwriting in LA to U.S.–China policy

02:00 – Producing a musical about terrorism (yes, really)

04:00 – Learning Chinese and discovering diplomacy

06:00 – What is Track 2 diplomacy, and why it matters

08:00 – How language shapes perception (and misperception)

10:00 – Building better AI with better language models

12:00 – China’s view of propaganda vs U.S. assumptions

14:00 – Are we living in “normal” geopolitical times again?

16:00 – Why China didn’t become more like the U.S.

18:00 – The two anxieties driving U.S. China policy

21:00 – The strategic geography of U.S. allies

24:00 – Why AI and chips are now central to foreign policy

26:00 – Can Asia avoid a U.S.–China “hegemony trap”?

28:00 – China’s mixed legacy with the rules-based order

30:00 – How Chinese citizens really feel about nationalism

34:00 – The code-switching and satire of Chinese netizens

36:00 – Why even top U.S. analysts misread China

39:00 – Can we model China’s future behavior?

42:00 – The push for modernity (and what may get in the way)

45:00 – What AI disruption means for Southeast Asia

48:00 – Will China adopt AI faster and at what cost?

51:00 – Why AI regulation in Asia is lagging behind

53:00 – How ASPI is convening the future of AI policy in Asia

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